I would like to give a warm welcome to Carolyn Kiel! Thank you for being a guest on this blog series. I know that your contributions and insights will be invaluable for the autistic and neurodivergent community. Let’s dive right in!
Introduction
- Interviewer is Tas
- Interviewee is Carolyn
Tas: If you are comfortable sharing, what is your relationship to neurodivergence and disability?
Carolyn: I didn’t realize that I had a connection to neurodivergence until a few years ago, when I found out that I’m autistic.
Tas: I am curious, how has your perspective on disability changed?
Carolyn: I’ve learned to seek out the experiences and perspectives of disabled people more frequently in discussions about disability. For most of my life, I only learned about disability from nondisabled people. Once I understood how important it is to hear disabled people share their own experiences – and how different those first-person experiences often are from society’s narrow views of disability as tragedy or inspiration – it drove me to learn more.
Tas: With that drive to learn more, you showcase the disabled communities stories on your podcast - which we will get into later! But to start off, what has your experience been in the professional world?
Caroyln: I’ve worked in the field of Learning & Development (L&D) since 2013, in a variety of industries (automotive, manufacturing, management consulting, and communications technology). I am currently an instructional designer and training project manager at a large company– so I create courses, guides and other training materials for the employees there.
Even though I haven’t formally requested accommodations, there are many ways that my current role naturally fits my needs. I work remotely, which helps me manage my energy, control my environment and minimize distractions. My job is a blend of virtual meetings and deep focus work. For the most part, my job has structure and follows repeatable processes – this makes it easier for me to know what to expect, how to do my best work, and how to respond to unexpected changes. I also have supportive managers and colleagues, as well as opportunities to be creative and learn new things. Not all L&D jobs are alike – it depends on the role and the company!
Tas: It is great to hear a positive experience with remote work and how finding your niche can really make work life easier in a lot of ways. Your experience is truly a testament to how employers need to create a safe and supportive environment. People thrive in neurosupportive work cultures! As you mentioned, not all L&D jobs are alike, so what type of professional barriers have you faced people’s lack of awareness about neurodivergence and disability?
Carolyn: I’ve experienced small things that have had some impact. For example, it takes me a while to mentally process a lot of new information when I’m first presented with it. My quiet, delayed response has been misinterpreted as resistance or lack of understanding, when I’m really just trying to organize my thoughts. It took me a while to realize how this affected how some colleagues thought of me. If there was more of an understanding of neurodivergence in those situations, those misunderstandings could have been avoided.
Tas: I agree. So many misunderstandings could be avoided if people took the time to learn. Communication barriers are something I also experience in professional spaces and educational ones. I saw that you have a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from Vassar College and a Master of Arts in Industrial/Organizational Psychology from Fairleigh Dickinson University. I know for me, college was a nightmare since it was not inclusive of invisible disabilities. What was navigating college like for you?
Carolyn: I did well academically and I had a strong drive to be independent, so overall it was a positive experience. I could select the courses that interested me and participate in extracurricular activities that I enjoyed. Social life was more challenging. I had a hard time forming close groups of friends, but I am still close with my best friend from college, so I am grateful for that.
Tas: I feel like once you find mutual respect, accountability and reciprocity you build lasting connections. Since building those connections takes time and effort, learning from others along the way can only help. Let me segway into your podcast. In fact it is an award winning podcast called Beyond 6 Seconds! As of June of this year you have 238 episodes published. What inspired you to start showcasing neurodivergent stories?
Carolyn: I started Beyond 6 Seconds in January 2018, as a way to showcase the experiences and achievements of everyday people. It began as a general interview show where I interviewed people with interesting jobs and hobbies. A few years ago as I looked for new guests on social media, I connected with people who were talking about disability, and then found a lot of autistic content creators who I related to in ways I wasn’t expecting. After finding out that I’m autistic, I switched my podcast’s focus to first-person neurodivergent experiences.
Tas: The evolution of podcasting is a road with so many directions. I am always fascinated with how projects can go to unexpected places. In your podcast description, you state that you showcase the “vibrance of neurodiversity.” Tell me more about that!
Carolyn: I want my guest interviews to demonstrate that neurodivergence is not a monolith. Neurodiversity and neurodivergence are popular words these days, and the meaning often gets lost or oversimplified. For example, I’ve heard people talk about “the neurodivergent experience,” when they’re really just describing autism and/or ADHD. Neurodivergence is so much broader than that! Everyone has different experiences based on their neurotype(s), if/when they were diagnosed, and other aspects of their identity or background. These differences make us a vibrant community.
Tas: You are so right! I notice that myself on social media. People break things down into so many pieces that it loses the nuances. Lived experience shapes us all in unexpected ways. No matter if we are neurotypical or neurodivergent - no two people are the same. How do you make sure your guests are diverse and that you remain inclusive of the various intersections people live? I think of these questions in the context of implicit and explicit bias. Sometimes in an effort to showcase certain voices, you drown out others unintentionally.
Carolyn: I specifically look for guests with backgrounds and identities that are different from mine. I track my episodes in a spreadsheet with their release dates and the topics we discuss, so I can see if I’m focusing on the same theme(s) too often, and what topics I”m missing. This helps me make sure I’m sharing a variety of experiences.
Since I record a limited number of episodes each year, and invest several hours into each episode, I am selective about my guests. For potential guests, I get a general understanding of their stories overall and decide if that’s something I want to share on my podcast. I don’t want to amplify people who promote harmful ideas about disability and neurodivergence (e.g., miracle cures, supremacy, bigotry). Otherwise, for people with unique, compelling stories who have some perspectives I don’t agree with, I will talk to them about it beforehand to ensure I understand their position, or ask them about it if it comes up during the episode.
Tas: An organized and concise process! Amplifying voices fairly is a delegate balance. Whether it is disability or generational differences, we can all learn from others. Speaking of which, the new generations of humanity are navigating a world of bigotry. It can be easy to let misinformation cloud perspectives on disability and neurodiversity. How can those that will outlive us all, fix the mistakes society has made around Neurodiversity and Disability acceptance?
Carolyn: Listen to disabled and neurodivergent people – especially those with other marginalized identities. Learn about the history of the disability rights movement. I recommend watching Crip Camp, a great film that shows how activists fought for the rights of people with disabilities in the United States. That film (along with current events) shows that we can’t take civil rights progress and protection for granted.
Tas: Now that we are at the end of the interview, what is something people may be surprised to learn about you?
I’ve been a singer for most of my life! I’ve performed in a cappella groups during and after college. I’ve sung at some big venues in the NY City metropolitan area, including Madison Square Garden, the Prudential Center, and the old Giants Stadium.
Tas: Love that! Wow, that must be such an amazing experience! I cannot even imagine being in front of so many people performing. Thank you for sharing! Before we end, is there anything else you would like to share?
Carolyn: It’s a scary time right now for a lot of disabled and neurodivergent people, so I am especially grateful for everyone who comes on my podcast to share their experiences. Your stories matter, and you matter.
Where can you find Carolyn’s Work?
Carolyn: You can follow Beyond 6 Seconds on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. I also have videos of my interviews on my YouTube channel. My podcast episodes have transcripts and my videos are subtitled. You can also go to beyond6seconds.net to find all of my episodes and social media links.
Outro
This is an ongoing series that will post 1-2 times per month. If you enjoyed this interview, please share!
If you are interested in being interviewed in this series, please reach out via my contact form. Please note: I am only accepting requests from disabled and neurodivergent adults. If you are a parent or caretaker, I cannot accept your interview request.
Tas The Artist 
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