Expert Voices: Martina Kuzenski

Introduction

• Interviewer: Tas
• Interviewee: Martina

I would like to give a warm welcome to public speaker, information technology specialist and passionate researcher Martina Kuzenski! Thank you for being a guest on this blog series. I know that your contributions and insights will be invaluable for the autistic/neurodivergent and disabled community. Let’s dive right in!

Tas: If you are comfortable sharing, do you have a visible or invisible disability and how does this impact your work?

Martina: I am autistic. In my line of work, the only impacts I have are social impacts and not having the problem-solving skills that are required for many roles in my industry. I have been working in IT since April 2015. I graduated with my Bachelor’s degree in Computer Information Systems in 2014 and my Master’s degree in Computer Science in 2022.

If I could change careers without having to worry about affording life in the US, I’d become a Child Life Specialist, but that would involve me being a non-traditional undergraduate student and then getting another Master’s degree.

Tas: I have interacted in the technology spaces throughout the years. I find that those interactions and environments are not always neurodivergent or disability friendly. Do you think they accommodate your needs?

Martina: If you’re autistic, my industry is very autism-unfriendly despite this being a field with a lot of neurodivergent people. Those with ADHD will be much more successful in the tech industry. My experiences being bullied and excluded in this industry would likely qualify me for a PTSD diagnosis. However, I have been with a very supportive team once.

They never knew I’m autistic, but they automatically did things that I knew would be helpful for me, such as giving me clear directions and being mindful of their sarcastic sense of humor (I can’t pick up sarcasm even if you use the sarcastic tone of voice).

Tas: I relate to traumatic and unsupportive work environments. It’s interesting to hear that the technology industry can be more accommodating to ADHD compared to other neurodivergence. I could see that, especially if your ADHD manifests with high energy and intense hyperfocus during work since tech can be fast paced. You mentioned that social interactions can create barriers at work, what is the hardest part about those interactions?

Martina: Being too weird for even autistic people. No seriously. An autistic person told me I was making them cringe with what I was saying. People don’t seem to want me around for reasons I can’t figure out. I enjoy when I have to work in the lab at work because I’m away from everyone.

Tas: I think that is a sentiment many autistic people can relate to. If I had a dollar for everytime I was called weird or cringe, I would be rich. It is a very dehumanizing experience to be isolated for simply being yourself. You were a guest on the Beyond 6 Seconds Podcast and discussed more of your lived experiences as an autistic Black woman in tech. What barriers have you experienced when interacting with supervisors/coworkers because of ableism/discrimination/ sexism?

Martina: Where I work, it seems like the only roles Black women get put in are administrative roles. I never saw Black women tech workers until I would meet up with the co-authors of the book I co-wrote. Still haven’t seen any more Black women in tech roles. I also feel like me being a Black woman is why I’m treated worse than other autistic coworkers.

Tas: It makes sense why you are so passionate about inclusion in the workplace! Microaggressions and implicit ableism are common in workplaces. It is deep rooted into the fabric of society which creates barriers. What advice do you have for companies that want to eliminate these barriers at work?

Martina: The first step is becoming aware of autism, including how the challenges impact how we perform our job duties as well as mental health consequences of workplace mistreatment. Auticon has a training course for employees to learn how to help autistic people succeed in the workplace. AANE has an article for supervisors that I have given to every supervisor post-diagnosis. A willingness to learn makes you better than a majority of allistic workers. We shouldn’t feel like we have no choice but to create our own spaces.

We need to have underrepresented people in leadership. Marginalized people know what’s best for marginalized people. Hire us in leadership positions. Utilize our suggestions for improvements to company culture. You can take all the training you want, but if you don’t apply the lessons learned, you’re just checking off a performative box.

Tas: Looking back on your life, how has your experience changed your view on disability/neurodiversity?

Martina: My uncle was developmentally disabled, so I was used to being around adults in his program with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Since discovering my own neurodivergence, I have the unpopular opinion that autism awareness is still needed. I feel like the neurodiversity movement only focuses on strengths of being neurodivergent while ignoring the challenges of being neurodivergent.

While it’s good to be more strengths-focused, ignoring challenges may contribute to toxic positivity and will not be effective in raising awareness. I also discovered that the neurodiversity movement was originally supposed to be for autistic people with lesser-support needs, which means those with higher-support needs would be ignored and underestimated.

Tas: That is so true. People tend to look at support needs as “proof” that some do or don’t need support. But that is not how it works. Everyone is unique and needs will always be different. Just because you have lesser support needs, doesn’t mean you can function without them. And I agree, toxic positivity does nothing for awareness or acceptance. It just adds barriers for everyone.

You were on the Hear from Each Other Autistic Voices Panel which aimed to spread awareness and share lived experiences of the autistic community. It is a scary time for the disabled community, and the autistic community is directly targeted. How can the autistic community advocate and educate allies on avoiding misinformation?

Martina: Advocate in the way that works for you. Just because you’re not attending protests doesn’t mean you’re not a good enough activist. Write letters. Host or participate in educational panels. Whatever you do, don’t burn yourself out or worsen your mental health.

Tas: I remind myself everyday not to push into burnout. It is a hard thing to do, but so needed! A few months ago you announced that you are pursuing your PhD in Information Technology. Academia is notoriously a toxic and unfriendly place for the disabled/neurodivergent community. How do you/are you navigating the social nuances that come with pursuing higher education?

Martina: Wow, I did not know about that notoriety. I hope I’m not making a mistake returning to school. I have not experienced ableism in higher education, but of course that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I actually enjoy being in an academic environment due to its structure.

Even before I was diagnosed near the end of the Master’s degree pursuit, I have found resources through the school that can help me with my challenges. These resources also include professors who offered extra help to the entire class. I plan to utilize my school’s writing center for help since I sometimes have trouble with putting my thoughts to paper.

Tas: I wish you luck with your program! And thank you for everything you shared today. Before we wrap up, I must ask: What is your favorite book, movie or TV series? And is there anything else you would like to share?

Martina: My favorite movies are But I’m a Cheerleader, Earth Girls are Easy, and RoboCop (1987). My husband is tired of me talking about how much I enjoy axe throwing, so I’ll say I’ve been Muslim for a year now and I discovered that my autism makes it easier to practice Islam. Social rules are written and clearly explained. Lower your gaze around people of a different gender than you? I’m bad at eye contact anyways! No more pork? I never liked green beans and most people cook green beans in pork, so it’s an excuse to not eat food I don’t like!

Tas: Green beans and pork have never been my favorite either. It is a mixture of textures that I just can’t like. I must admit, I have only seen RoboCop once, and But I’m a Cheerleader is iconic! Thank you again for being here, I have learned so much and I know that the audience will too. Where can people find your work?

Martina: You can find me on my blog Diary of Self https://diaryofself.wordpress.com/ on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/martina-kuzenski-350b0b6a/ or you can pick up the book in which I co-authored “Ladies in Tech: Sharing Expertise for a Successful Career” https://a.co/d/6UQ2J1K.

Outro

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